Curse

Kento Jade · Oct 21, 2006, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Im pretty much new to the game so I wanted to try out as many classes as I can. I kinda already found my niche in terms of class preference but I wanna explore everything before I focus completely on one character.

With that in mind, I was wondering how effective in PvE(All Ive played so far) would a Fast Casting/Domination or Illusion/Water Magic build be. I havent exactly looked at all the skills cuz they are kind of confusing but from what little I have read it seems as if it would wreak all sorts of havoc on mobs.

So if anyone could maybe show me a build or give some suggestions so I can get started in the right direction. Greatly appreciate it.

Dean Harper · Oct 22, 2006, 12:08 AM // 00:08

First of all, if your gonna go Me/E in PvE, DO NOT USE ANY ELE SKILLS!!! They cost way too much for a mesmer primary. If you wnat to go Domination, then i suggest using a interrupt, shutdown/punish, or e-surge build. I have a dom mes thats e-surge and it works great, you can find that build on guildwarswiki.com. Also, i need to know wat ur mes is in, Prophecies or Factions. tell me that and i can give you more advice.

-Dean

Priest Of Sin · Oct 22, 2006, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Dont go Me/E and use ele skills in PvE, they're too expensive as Dean said. One often overlooked role of mesmers in PvE is hardcore hex removal (Me/Mo with interrupts+Mind Wrack, Expel hexes, Remove hex, Shatter Hex, Smite Hex, ect.), which most groups need on the Naphui Quarter mission. Domination is the best for PvE, IMO because it allows you to manipulate more than one foe at a time, which is key for PvE.

Avarre · Oct 22, 2006, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Priest Of Sin

IMO because it allows you to manipulate more than one foe at a time, which is key for PvE.

So does illusion. Domination is better for providing solid damage and interrupts (shatter hex, empathy, cry). Illusion, if used properly (ie: spread out, not on the called target), can also weaken the total life of a group.

It's true illusion degen maxes at 20 d/s, but you can easily put degen on multiple targets. Then your overall damage can be more similar to 100d/s. However, illusion's only real functions as a primary are degen - things like AC and SV can be fit into a support role on a dom mes. Thus dom as a primary has more versatility, dealing high damage, interrupting, and still being able to fit illusion or inspiration support skills.

Kento Jade · Oct 22, 2006, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Harper

First of all, if your gonna go Me/E in PvE, DO NOT USE ANY ELE SKILLS!!! They cost way too much for a mesmer primary. If you wnat to go Domination, then i suggest using a interrupt, shutdown/punish, or e-surge build. I have a dom mes thats e-surge and it works great, you can find that build on guildwarswiki.com. Also, i need to know wat ur mes is in, Prophecies or Factions. tell me that and i can give you more advice.

-Dean

Im in factions

I read on Wiki that Mind Freeze would work well with Mesmer skills

Dean Harper · Oct 22, 2006, 06:20 AM // 06:20

it might work, except you do not want to have exhaustion as a mes, since their energy isnt that great, and cant really be made that much better in the long run, but it might work since its a low energy cost. I jsut preffer not to use them for the obvious reason that they cost too much energy for the most part.

Shanaeri Rynale · Oct 22, 2006, 07:41 AM // 07:41

The don't use ele skills in pve does'nt tell the full story. A few ele skills dovetail wonderfully into a mesmer build. Glyph of Renewal in many cases is better than echo, Blinding flash works nicely with epidemic etc.

Don't let high energy cost put you off, you can always steal some back or use a focus swap.

It all depends on what you are trying to do and where you are doing it.

As mentioned above, I would start off with Domination, with conjure phantasm at low monster levels CP is excellent. Once you get a few skills points under your belt you can then go for some of the more esoteric builds.

As non mesmer as it seems, if you don't have a lot of guild/flist help available taking meteor shower will help you get into teams. Fast Cast nuker, the majority understand, Domination mesmer less so. Sad but true.

Contessa · Oct 23, 2006, 07:20 AM // 07:20

I completely disagree with a lot of the above posters. I love to play mesmer/ele PvE.

Water magic works great with fast-casting in some areas like perdition rock. Maelstrom disables breeze keepers and a lot of the other annoying spellcasters around there fast. It's AoE so you can interupt several monsters at once, while mesmer interupts are geared towards a single foe. If you cast it with chaos storm, the monsters ping-pong around not knowing where to go. Echo diversion and the you have a lot of shut-down going on. You can also cast a snare (there are a ton in the water line), to keep the enemies grouped up and slow them from coming at you. The only mesmer skill that slows a whole group is Shared Burden.

Glyph of energy can be used to reduce energy cost and eliminate exhaustion. Dragon Stomp can now be your friend and you are less likely to get interupted with the fast-casting. You can use glyph of energy with any of you skills, mesmer or ele, to reduce the cost by 20 points.

Another use with ele secondary are wards. Wards are a very nice support skill (it's also helpful if you are only traveling with henches to keep them alive while doling out damage).

Another fun thing to do in the earth line is fasting-casting stone daggers like a machine gun. If you cast earth attunement and ele attunement, daggers only cost 1 energy to cast.

There are also mesmer builds that use second wind for energy management. This takes adavantage of exhaustion. Don't let exhaustion scare you. Even if you open a fight casting one spell that causes exhaustion, the exhaustion isn't permanent and natural regen will take care of it. It's only when you spam exhaustion spells that it can be a problem whether you are a mesmer primary or an ele primary.

Any combo is good in PvE. You just need to experiment around and ignore the nay sayers.

LightningHell · Oct 23, 2006, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Quote:

I read on Wiki that Mind Freeze would work well with Mesmer skills

First lesson: Wiki is frequently incorrect.

Me/E can be used for a variety of reasons, from secondary wards to Glyph of Renewal, which have been covered above. Wards have a 15e cost, though.

Also, Gale is useful if used correctly.

Contessa · Oct 23, 2006, 07:58 AM // 07:58

I forgot to add one of my favorite ele skills for my mesmer: Mist Form. Mist Form can make your mesmer invincible in some areas (echo it and use an enchanting mod). Kinetic armor is good too. There are a lot of good protection skills in the ele line.

I haven't had a problem with wards and energy. Here's how I handle it:

I usually take one ward, two at the most. Ward of stability is great in areas with knockdown. Ward against melee has saved my butt in some areas. I usually use Mantra of Recall with high inspiration for energy management with this build. If you cast it before battle, the extra energy will kick in early into battle if you time it right and offset some of the high-cost, openning skills.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 23, 2006, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Me/E with gale is hax, though not so much in pve. Mesmers really get screwed in pve imo. No one cares if you diversion something, so just bring empathy and backfire and maybe glyph of renewal and go to town.

Franco · Oct 23, 2006, 11:40 AM // 11:40

I like to use Ineptitude in PvE, sure migraine is fun but only for specific tasks

anyways

Ineptitude (e)
Clumsiness
Images of Remorse
Distortion
Power Drain
Leech signet
Rez
(optional)

Yeah I know it doesnt have heals, but as a mesmer its not your job to go tank or charge in battle.

Migraine (e)
Conjure phantasm
Leech signet
cry of frustration
Power spike
Power drain
Rez
(optional)

same

Effigy · Oct 23, 2006, 01:55 PM // 13:55

You can always go dual attunement nuker/spammer Me/E in PvE if you want to play with ele spells. It works very well in the earlier parts of the game to be sure, and you can always switch to Dom or Illusion later on. Elemental Attunement {E} can be capped very early in Cantha.

LightningHell · Oct 24, 2006, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

Me/E with gale is hax, though not so much in pve. Mesmers really get screwed in pve imo. No one cares if you diversion something, so just bring empathy and backfire and maybe glyph of renewal and go to town.

And Shatter Hex. Cry of Frustration, too.

I rather take a Mesmer in PvE than an Elementalist in my group; chances are the Mesmer knows vaguely what he's doing, while the Elementalist is just going to "pump out 1337 dmg".

Arcanis the Omnipotent · Oct 24, 2006, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Now let me get this straight....

"If you're gonna play Me/E in PVE dont use any Ele skills"

THEN WHY THE RED ENGINE WOULD HE BE ME/E IN THE FIRST PLACE MORONS?!!

I've done it since I started in Prophecies about a week after the game came out. I've been using Air Magic ever since then. Its possible, its fun, and most of all, if you cant manage your energy as a Mesmer, you have major problems and should stop playing as one.

Dean Harper, you're clearly an idiot and should change professions.

draxynnic · Oct 24, 2006, 04:01 AM // 04:01

My first character was a Me/E as well...

It is true that you have a lower 'starting' pool of energy than an Elementalist primary, but on the other hand you do have the advantage of Mesmer skills to get your energy back up. Yes, you can get those with an E/Me as well, but the Mesmer primary gets the advantage of Fast Casting as well, which can be very useful with speeding up some of the slower-casting Elementalist skills or simply allowing you to pound away faster.

In my experience, the main difference I've observed is that the Elementalist method of play is to start with a huge energy pool and to run it down, with elementalist energy management mostly being built around slowing down the rate of which you run down your energy. A Me/E, however, works by starting with a smaller pool (although it is worth noting that with Enchanter's armour and equipment, you can get your energy pool up to 50-ish) which they employ in something of a boom/bust cycle - use it up, refill, repeat. This does mean that Exhaustion is more significant for the Me/E - for an Elementalist primary it can become almost irrelevant when you reach the point where you're not going to be getting your Energy back up to the Exhaustion-imposed limit anyway, while with a Me/E you can quickly find yourself hitting the exhaustion after the refill phase if you're not careful. On the other hand, Me/Es don't need as much time to recover after an engagement as the typical Ele primary, and while their rate of damage output may have the occasional hiccough during the refill phases, they are far less likely to find themselves completely helpless due to drying out completely compared to the Ele primary.

That's my experience, anyway. Your mileage may vary - and I will point out that while I have played both the Me/E and primary Elementalist, the latter is still a relatively young character.

LightningHell · Oct 24, 2006, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

In my experience, the main difference I've observed is that the Elementalist method of play is to start with a huge energy pool and to run it down, with elementalist energy management mostly being built around slowing down the rate of which you run down your energy. A Me/E, however, works by starting with a smaller pool (although it is worth noting that with Enchanter's armour and equipment, you can get your energy pool up to 50-ish) which they employ in something of a boom/bust cycle - use it up, refill, repeat. This does mean that Exhaustion is more significant for the Me/E - for an Elementalist primary it can become almost irrelevant when you reach the point where you're not going to be getting your Energy back up to the Exhaustion-imposed limit anyway, while with a Me/E you can quickly find yourself hitting the exhaustion after the refill phase if you're not careful. On the other hand, Me/Es don't need as much time to recover after an engagement as the typical Ele primary, and while their rate of damage output may have the occasional hiccough during the refill phases, they are far less likely to find themselves completely helpless due to drying out completely compared to the Ele primary.

That's my experience, anyway. Your mileage may vary - and I will point out that while I have played both the Me/E and primary Elementalist, the latter is still a relatively young character.

Taking note of your last paragraph, I'd encourage your Elementalist to cap Ether Prodigy as quickly as possible. It's a darn good "refill" type-energy management.

However, if one has to use their Elite, then Mesmer would be a better choice of profession; many money skills in Mesmer energy management are non-elite, such as Power Drain and Drain Enchantment. There is no Elementalist non-elite energy management except for Glyph of Lesser Energy, and that particular Glyph is a joke.

Effigy · Oct 24, 2006, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Exhaustion is not much of a problem on a mesmer, as long as you don't get carried away. Don't use more than 2 exhaustion skills every 30 seconds and you'll be fine.

Avarre · Oct 24, 2006, 12:55 PM // 12:55

It's not that Me/E with ele skills is unfeasible, it's that it's simply inferior to the capabilities of a pure mesmer. Each mesmer line has unique capabilities; and, to an extent, going dom/illu is as diverse as dom/fire - only you still get a rune bonus.

In PvE, play what you like, there is no problem. While a full FC nuker is unadvised in PvE simply because of its ineffectiveness (armor bonus go?), using a mesmer build with wards, glyphs, gale/blind etc inserted is quite functionable.

Franco · Oct 24, 2006, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Arcanis just because you like ME/E because ooh its so hard to spam flare, instead of using domination or illusion doesnt mean its good.

heres another 2 cents from me

E surge
e burn
arcane echo
healing bre,
heal area,
shatter ench,
distortio
blackout or rez